Moving Towards the Ultimate - Shekhar Kapur in conversation with Sadhguru

Shekhar Kapur : I just walked into a space where all the brahmacharis are chanting. There’s something special about their chants. It kind of hits you right here. It’s kind of energizing and powerful. So, what is a brahmachari ? I mean, we understand in Hinduism, brahmachari means denial. But you often said it’s not about denial; it’s about gaining something. Tell me about it.



Sadhguru : [Laughs] You know, for example, if somebody wants to climb Mount Everest, he prepares for years; probably for a lifetime. And then he goes into the harshest of the climate, denying himself every pleasure of life; of comfort, of family, of society. He denies himself everything that people normally want to have – all that to climb mountain. But do you really believe he is denying himself, or is he making another possibility, something which you can never imagine, a reality in his life ?So, that is brahmacharya. The word Brahmacharya literally means – Brahman means “the Ultimate”, charya means “path” – you are on the path of the Ultimate. Or in other words, you are somebody who is not willing to settle for small things. Anybody who has created anything worthwhile in his life has naturally denied himself a lot of simple pleasures that other people have. When you are making film, maybe you are not eating well, maybe you are not sleeping well. Sitting with your wife, having dinner with the family – everything you deny yourself, because you want to create something, isn’t it ? Isn’t that true with every man and woman who has created something worthwhile in their lives ? The same with brahmacharya. They are on the path of the Ultimate. Because of that, their attention is not diverted to other things what people think are valuable.

Shekhar Kapur : So, what is the Ultimate ?

Sadhguru : See, if you look around here, there are mud and stones and trees and plants – this is creation. From this soil, this tree is throwing out wonderful, fragrant flowers; from the same soil, a mango tree will throw out mangoes; from the same soil you have come and make movies; [Laughs] from the same soil, I have come, and I’m a Guru. So, there is something here which can make this mud into a tree, into a fruit, into a filmmaker, into a Guru, and into a billion other things. Don’t you want to know what it is ? Don’t you want to experience what it is ? If it was somewhere in heaven, I would not be interested. But, there is something within you which can transform a rice grain or a banana or a piece of bread into a human being. This is the ultimate source of creation.

Shekhar Kapur : Yeah

Sadhguru : Don’t you want to know what it is ? Don’t you want to experience it ? Don’t you want to know the power of it, the beauty of it, the joy of it ? So, brahmacharis are people who have had a taste of that, and now they want all of it. They don’t care whether they eat or not; they don’t care whether they drink, smoke and enjoy other simple physical pleasures that other people are addicted to. They have had a taste of the Ultimate; now they want it all. They won’t settle for anything less.

Shekhar Kapur : Okay. Now, I understand that till you experience it… [ you won’t know ]. Talk about the Ultimate. What is the Ultimate ?

Sadhguru : See, my work as a Guru is just to give you a taste of that Ultimate, so that your life goes into a tizzy, you go crazy, and you want to go for it. You had a taste; now you can’t stop. [Laughs]

Shekhar Kapur : So your work is to drive people mad….?

Sadhguru : Yes. Because if people sleep through their life, in the name of comfort, in the name of security, they are wasting their life. They must go all the way. This is not my desire – it is their desire also. Today you have a desire to fulfil one thing. If that happens, you want the next one and the next one and the next one. If you carefully look at your desiring process, you will see you are not willing to settle for anything limited, isn’t it ? There is something within you which does not like boundaries. There is something within you which is longing for the Ultimate – always. So, this is not my idea; this is not my philosophy that you should seek the Ultimate. You are anyway seeking the Ultimate in unconscious ways. But if you seek in unconscious ways, you will always remain frustrated; and the chances of finding it are remote. It is better to seek what you want in a conscious, focused way. So, brahmacharis are also seeking just what you are seeking; but they are seeking it 100% consciously.

Shekhar Kapur : So, what is the Ultimate ? [Sadhguru laughs] I’m looking for words.

Sadhguru : See, whatever we look at, we can only look at it the way you understand it right now. If I say something which is not in your understanding, I’d be compelling you to believe me or disbelieve me. I don’t want to go into such obscenities. I think it’s obscene to demand that you must believe me. I’ll never do that to anyone. So, right now, what you call as “myself”, you actually gathered over a period of time?

Shekhar Kapur : Yeah.

Sadhguru : In terms of your mind, it is a huge heap of impressions. In terms of your body, it is a heap of food that you have eaten. So, you gathered this. What you gather can be yours; can it ever be you?

Shekhar Kapur : No. Then what is the “you” beyond “yours”?

Sadhguru : So you are existing here without even knowing “what is me”. This “me” is not a simple me. This “me” is the Ultimate. This “me” can make a piece of bread, a banana into a human being. This is not a simple thing. This ame “me” which can make a banana into a human being also created the whole cosmic scape. It is not a different “me.” So, the choice is just this – either you can exist here just as a piece of creation or you can exist as a very Creator himself. That’s the Ultimate, for now. There is more to it, but for now….[Laughs]